TV Watercooler

Bye then.

And thanks. Probably.

You tossers, you invite people on here from SP and have the arrogance to think you are the only people tackling exploitation and the only people getting anywhere when some of us are calling the Film Council on a daily basis and have a string of successes a mile long, you're not the only ones speaking to Skillset, UKFC, Arts Council, Higher education, films schools, low pay commission, HMRC NMW Enforcement unit........ But as soon as we prove that you deride even that.

You're all full of shit and you just deride anyone who disagrees without you without knowing anything about their successes -despite inviting them to comment. Perhaps next time you should list your entry qualifications - c'os that's what you seem to demand before joining the clique.

Care to tell me why you removed Tea House theatre?

Unionists - fuck em all.

Sworkinit, firstly we are not "unionists". If by that you mean we belong to a trades union then actually almost no-one on here does. Secondly you did not arrive here via SP and we have had people come over here from there and had perfectly reasonable conversations with them and talked about the way ahead on this. And thirdly, no-one is saying there is only one way of going about things but if you do not offer any kind of alternative, simply to stand on the sidelines and criticize whilst other people do do things doesn't actually progress anything in any way at all.

An alternative way of doing things was suggested on Tea House theatre, suggestions are offered - derision is thrown back. Now the thread has been removed.

Hopefully the SWEAT team are not the only group tackling these issues, but what you describe is lobbying relevant groups, which is entirely different. That's great if you are motivated enough to lobby daily, after all, every little helps.

Because of your lack of knowledge regarding FF's work, you think I referred to the Arts Council for a different reason, they, in fact, were advertising an unpaid position which FF successfully pursued over a prolonged period of correspondence and hopefully they will not do so again.

That's why I suggested you step back a little, take a deep breath and consider what you say. BTW I am not a union member and did not intend to deride you, only to assist you. There are quite a few SP people on here making excellent points, but you seem to have failed to notice them.

Respect.......it's a two way thing.

I completely understand what the Arts council do and have been educating their ineffective webmasters for the 12 months before others alerted this forum, they are endeavouring to 'get their policy concerning ads and how to moderate them sorted out' but are remarkably slow. Those with decision making capabilities aren't talking to the postings vetters at the front end. Which is why even to this day its still happening.

Because of your lack of knowledge of my work you are all too quick to judge. I aint just lobbying, I chase employers and ring up the UKFC and get jobs to paid - its very satisfying, particularly if you manage to educate someone who had no idea that it is reasonable to pay people.

There are lots of others out there who are also making headway, we don't all need to publicise it here.

You didn't win Tea House theatre, in fact you played it badly, which is why it was removed. Take a step back and learn some circumspection because whilst all you do on here is show people up, you aren't influencing people - the SP debate showed that quite clearly.

Respect - there is none on this board whatsoever.

I do agree with the whole ethos behind this board.

Freelancers have a right to charge for their services...this site is aimed at freelancers.

Why then, do you target companies advertising work experience placements?

If I had not been given the opportunity to gain invaluable experience on a practical set on more than one occasion, then I would not be in the paid industry job that I am in today.

More often than not, most graduates are grateful for the opportunity to gain work experience and I commend anyone who has the gumption to work their way into the industry (instead of waiting for someone to knock on their door).

I think that these TV Watercooler members who harrass independent companies should try doing a work experience placement for free to feel the satisfaction from working hard for a change.

How dare you suggest this!

We are all incredibly busy and important...its a wonder the board exists at all given the important work we have to attend to...

On a serious note I dont think most people hear are against work experience...more against the abuse of work experience...personally ive know problem with someone doing two weeks or whatever...but six months! And then out of the door and the next person comes in? Where do you draw the line?

Dont take my word as gospel tho....Some people hear think I might be batting for the other side...And not in a good way!

I do not understand why you think TV Watercooler members should try an unpaid work experience placement. This has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever seen posted here.

Why do you want to perpetuate an illegal practise?

I doubt if many on this board actually entered the industry working for free. I was paid for my work from the start, maybe I put in extra hours (my own choice), but that was it.

Free is not best. For employers or the exploited. Never. Ever. Working for free does not usually provide the kind of experiences that will help develop careers, most astute PMs/producers know the companies / names which impress on CVs. Do they include those listed on the Sweat posts? No. Never. Ever.

Exploiters are frequently not offering constructive or safe training. If employers break the law on paying the NMW, do they have Employers Liability insurances, any clue about H&S etc or how to assist trainees with structured career development? Their filming / production practises must be questioned too, are work-for-nothing trainees picking up the correct techniques? I have given more breaks to people without experience than work-for-free people in the past.

Work for free experiences are not provided by reputable companies. Work-for-free people are exploited to build businesses on the backs of THEIR / YOUR free labour. The slave trade supposedly ended long ago.

It might be worth reading the MPs and the Minimum Wage SWEAT thread which was posted today as this explains some of the issues regarding intern elitism.

PS: If you and some of your friends fancy coming to work for me for free, I am sure I could provide some great long term work experience in exchange meagre expenses whilst you and your friends build me a very profitable business and make me rich. If you have your own camera / edit/ laptop / desks / chairs / phones and perhaps some office space for us all, then that would be even better.

Eh? What kind of ridiculous argument is that?